Please, once and for all, how to replace Finder ! (Tiger)

[bluloo]

Moderator edit: This thread is Tiger only. To discuss replacing Finder on Leopard please use this thread (http://www.cocoatech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3925) .

---------------------------------

Hi,

I've been a registered user of Path Finder from when it was called Snax.

I've tried using both the loginwindow hack and the pkginfo hacks without success (see italics below). I've edited both the local and system loginwindow.plist as well.

When clicking a dock folder, the Finder still launches. This is supremely annoying and makes PF a no go for me.

Can the developer, or a definitive source, please chime in with a "fix"? (BTW, the new Beta is shaping up quite nicely, you've been busy I see)

Sincerely A Frustrated (loyal) User

(If this has been definitively covered I apologize)
TIA
:)

To make OSX think Path Finder is Finder:
Cmd-click on Path Finder, select "Show Package Contents".
Go to Contents, open PkgInfo.
Change "APPLPFdR" to "APPLMACS" (ignore quotes; it's the only thing in the file).
To reverse, change "APPLMACS" back to "APPLPFdR".

Replacing Finder with Path Finder:
Open Terminal
type "defaults Write com.apple.loginwindow /Path/to/Path Finder.app
(again, ignore the quotes. Replace /Path/to/ with the actual path to wherever you've put Path Finder; mine is /Applications/Utilities/)
Exit Terminal
Log out
or
Open com.apple.loginwindow.plist with Property List Editor
(for 10.2.x, look in ~/Library/Preferences; for 10.3.x look in /Library/Preferences)
Click on Root, then click the "New Child" button
You'll get a line that says New Item in the first column, String in the second and nothing in the third.
Enter "Finder" in the first column, leave String in the second and enter "/Path/to/Path Finder.app" in the third column.
(Like usual, ignore the quotes, and /Path/to/ is your path to Path Finder.)
Save & close com.apple.loginwindow.plist
Exit Property List Editor
Log out

[neilio]

First of all, we appreciate your loyalty. Really, we do! :)

To make things clear before I continue, the truth is we don't "officially" support Path Finder as a Finder replacement. Yes, it was pushed like this previously by my predecessor, but the reality is Path Finder still has quite a ways to go before it truly could "replace' Apple's Finder, and we'd be ignorant (and filled with hubris) if we claimed as such.

We do offer ways of achieving a kind of functionality that could sort of be considered Finder replacing, but nothing that works 100%. The reality is that there are way more programmers and applications out there than there are hours in the day, and the majority of them still program for Apple's Finder. Understandably so.

Being able to intercept all of the possibilities for Finder calls is, in many ways, futile. As many smarter people than me have said, we (Cocoatech, Apple developers, etc.) are just sharecroppers - we work the land that Apple has created. And as Apple has giveth, Apple easily can taketh away.

I'm not saying that we won't try harder to make things easier for people who want to use Path Finder instead of Apple's Finder - we understand that there are a lot of people that want (need?) this functionality. But it is difficult for Steve - Path Finder relies almost entirely on what Apple provides, and if Apple wants to make things difficult for 3rd party developers, so be it.

Okay. 'Nuff said. Now I can link to this post whenever anyone asks about Path Finder replacing Apple's Finder. :)

To help you get the two bits that you quoted in your post working:

1. What are you editing the PkgInfo or the com.apple.loginwindow.plist file with? Is it possible you're not saving it with UNIX line endings? Or not in a plain text format?

2. The com.apple.loginwindow.plist hack isn't really necessary, if you can stand seeing the Finder launch, and then quit when you log in. It adds a couple of seconds to log in, but nothing devastating. That said...

3. Which com.apple.loginwindow.plist are you editing? Mine is located in my home folder -> Library -> Preferences.

The best thing I can say is to doublecheck your PkgInfo file and make sure you're saving it in the proper format. Worst comes to worst, you can email me at support@cocoatech.com, and I can stuff and send you my PkgInfo file. You could then unstuff it and replace the one on your system with mine.

If it still doesn't work, then it's possible there something on your system that's "breaking" the hack, as both are working fine for me.

If you Path Finder is located in your Applications folder, try pasting this into the terminal and hitting return. It will write the proper key into the com.apple.loginwindow.plist file.

defaults write com.apple.loginwindow Finder /Applications/Path Finder.app

Let me know if either of these work. If not, I have to admit I will have reached the limits of my understanding on how to get it working on your system...

Neil

[bluloo]

Thank you so much for the reply. :)

I used text edit to make the PkgInfo change to APPLMACS and saved the file as plain text. (There is no file extension on that or any other PkgInfo file on my Mac.)

I tried editing both the local (me/library/preferences) and system (/library/preferences) login window.plist file. I used the property list editor to do so (it launched when I doubleclicked the file).

I tried cutting and pasting the terminal code and received this error message: defaults[10065] Unexpected argument Finder.app; leaving defaults unchanged.

I edited, manually using the plist editor, both my local and system loginwindow.plist files.

I also trashed PF and reinstalled it again. Same deal. If I click on a dock folder, the Finder launches.

(The Finder doesn't launch when I log in or re-start but it still launches when I click on dock folder)

I've quit PF and relaunched, logged out and restarted. No differences. :(

[ecammit]

I have already Path Finder "replacing" finder via the loginwindow hack. I can verify, however, that clicking a folder in the dock still opens it in Finder. I might suggest as a workaround, putting the folder in the toolbar or shelf of PathFinder's windows.

Also, I am wondering if it is possible to just rename PathFinder.app to Finder.app and place it in /System/Library/CoreServices. Concevably any call to Finder should go to PathFinder instead. I haven't tried this yet, but it may work. Be sure to save the old Finder.app!

[neilio]

Sorry, I forgot to escape the space - try this in the terminal:

defaults write com.apple.loginwindow Finder /Applications/Path\ Finder.app

Also, did you know you can create Path FInder specific aliases? I just tested it in the public beta, though, and it looks like it's broken ( :( ) but this should work in the stable release (Path Finder 3.1).

Highlight a folder or volume, and select under the File menu "create a Path Finder alias" or use the quick-key control+option+commmand+l.

This will create a Path Finder alias which, when added to the dock and clicked on, will open that item in PF. It's not the most elegant workaround, but it works.

If you click on a Path FInder alias in the Finder, it will launch Path Finder to open it. Turnaround is fair play. :) Just kidding.

Neil

[ecammit]

What happens if someone clicks on a PathFinder alias who doesn't have PathFinder installed? Does it open the alias in Finder in that case, or error?

[neilio]

What happens if someone clicks on a PathFinder alias who doesn't have PathFinder installed? Does it open the alias in Finder in that case, or error?
That's a good question - I don't know. I'll test that today and let you know what happens. I'm guessing, though, it'll be an error. The idea is that it's a Path FInder-specific document, so if PF was never installed on that machine, it would have no idea what PFdR is.

Again, I'm just the designer, but I think working around this situation would be pretty impossible - again, we can't tell Apple's Finder to do anything it doesn't want to do. :)

[jonny]

For bluloo

I found that if you change Pkginfo from APPLPFdR to FNDRMACS and edit the com.apple.loginwindow.plist for PF to login as the finder it will work.
APPLMACS does not work.
Folders in the dock now open up in PF as well as FruitMenu items in my apple menu. I don't even have a PF icon in the dock. It really thinks it's the Finder.
I hope this helps.

[ecammit]

Cool, it works!! Thanks :D

[bluloo]

I'm not at home to try but...

THANKS to ALL!! :) :)

[neilio]

Duh. That's my fault - I've been quoting the wrong application string all along, and never realized that I had put the incorrect application code in the FAQs page.

I've updated the faqs with the correct info - thanks for pointing out the error!

[bill]

Woo-hoo! Replacing APPLMACS with FNDRMACS works like a champ. Now I can use ABFR without Finder running, and iTunes "Show Song File" command (cmd-R) shows the file in PF instead of Finder. The only thing that doesn't seem to work is "Show In Finder" in the Dock. Oh, and the "Replace Text In Item Name" AppleScript doesn't work, either.

[neilio]

Woo-hoo! Replacing APPLMACS with FNDRMACS works like a champ. Now I can use ABFR without Finder running, and iTunes "Show Song File" command (cmd-R) shows the file in PF instead of Finder. The only thing that doesn't seem to work is "Show In Finder" in the Dock. Oh, and the "Replace Text In Item Name" AppleScript doesn't work, either.
First of all, that's great!

Your applescript problems are part of the downside of doing this, unfortunately, which is one of the reasons why we don't really support this method of faking out the OS. Many applescripts use the Finder to find out what applications are running (amongst other things), and if they send that system call, and Path Finder is pretending to be the Finder, the script will usually either fail, or worse, hang the system and beachball until you force-quit.

This is why I don't have this set on my main system. I just let the finder launch so the script can still work, and then quit the finder once it's done. It doesn't happen very often, so it's not a huge annoyance to me.

If you're happy, though, so am I. :D

(Made this sticky so others looking for this info can find it easily).

Neil

[bill]

Here's an oddity: The second line of a finder script (in this case the above-mentioned Replace Text in Item Names script) should be "tell application "applicationName" etc etc" as in:

tell application "Finder" etc etc

However, my copy of this script says:

tell application "Path Finder" etc etc

The odd thing is, I actually *did* go into the script and make that change, but that was several months ago, it was on 10.2.8, and since then I've:
Erased the HD and installed Panther 3 - 4 times
Replaced the HD
Did a zero-all-data HD format on the new HD
Installed Panther again

At no time did I back up my altered scripts, nor did I reload them to the HD afterward

Unless I'm missing something, any one of these steps should have made it impossible for my altered scripts to be on my HD. I guess the question is, since I've got the system more or less thinking Path Finder is Finder, did Finder, Path Finder, Script Editor or some other part of the system make this change for me? Enquiring minds are confused.

[Anonymous]

Okay, here is the complete way to go, no pathfinder icon in the dock, folders in dock work, everything.

1. Put pathfinder in your home directory.
2. Control click it and open contents/pkginfo
3. Change the text in pkginfo to FNDRMACS
4. Make sure you have terminal in your dock
5. Open Script Editor in the applescript folder in your applications folder.
6. type:
tell application "Finder"
quit
end tell
7. Quit all open apps and open terminal via your dock
8. type:
cd /System/Library/coreservices
mv Finder.app ~Finder.app
mv /~/Path\ Finder.app /System/Library/coreservices
mv Path\ Finder.app Finder.app
Log out, log back in and you are set.

To revert back to normal, quit everything like before, open terminal and type:
cd /System/Library/coreservices
mv Finder.app ~~Finder.app
mv ~Finder.app Finder.app
Log out, log back in etc.

Hope this helps. It took me a few goes to get right... so I thought I would help those struggling.

[bill]

Cool! That works. But of course, as a geek wanna-be, I've got a few suggestions. 8)

you can save a few lines of code by replacing
mv /~/Path\ Finder.app /System/Library/CoreServices
mv Path\ Finder.app Finder.app
with
mv/~/Path\ Finder.app /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app

An easier way I used, once I read your idea, was to log in as root, open two folders, one to /System/Library/CoreServices and the other to /Applications. The plan was to drag Finder out of CoreServices, drag Path Finder in and rename it. Once I dragged the Finder out of CoreServices, it quit, and I hadn't put Terminal in the Dock for the root account. No prob, sez I, and reboot the computer into Single-User mode. At the prompt, I typed "mv /Applications/Path\ Finder.app /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app", followed by "reboot".

System reboots, Path Finder launches, life is good. The only strange thing I've seen so far is that the Finder Dock icon has the "I'm running" pointer behind it, but if I click on it, I get "The application "(null)" cannot be launched. -43". If I click on Path Finder's Dock icon, PF comes up, but there's no "I'm running" pointer. Other than that, happiness. :lol:

[neilio]

Official nagging: be very, very careful if you use this hack, as this will break all OS upgrades that affect or change the Finder. You will need to remember to copy back the original finder before running any OS upgrades.

Neil

[bill]

Good point. Sticky-note time.

[Anonymous]

Well, it just seemed that I had to try and decifer all the other posts and messages and sort through them all, combining them to get something that worked. I did it, so I thought I would post the COMPLETE thing here.

Yes, I purposely added some extra lines, just to help out people who are new to the terminal, make it easier to understand.

[bill]

Well, it just seemed that I had to try and decifer all the other posts and messages and sort through them all, combining them to get something that worked. I did it, so I thought I would post the COMPLETE thing here.

Yes, I purposely added some extra lines, just to help out people who are new to the terminal, make it easier to understand.

Nothing wrong with that, please don't get me wrong.

And now for the down-side (I've only done this on one machine; don't know if other people would have the same problem). This is rather long; you have been warned.

I lost my root account. I didn't realize it at the time, but I'd decided to switch the Finder & PF back to their normal places so I could play w/3.2b10. Since it worked well enough last time in Single User Mode, I decided to do it that way again. No joy-unable to move/rename/remove Path Finder (named Finder) from its folder.

Decided to log in as root - no root account to log in under. That's odd, sez I, I'd swear I just enabled it a couple of days ago. Oh, well, I'll just re-enable it again. Fired up NetInfo Manager, entered my account password to authenticate, then again after selecting "Enable Root User". And again. And again. And again. Totally unable to enable root.

Not good, sez I, but I'm nothing if not versatile. I'll just rename the existing Finder (which is really PF) then drag the real Finder back. I burrowed my way down to the Finder's den, where I found I could not move, rename or delete Finder.

Think, think, think... ah-ha! sez I. I went up one level, did a get info and changed ownership of the folder from root (!) to me. Then I was easily able to drag the old not-really Finder out of that folder, and the real Finder back in. Then I went back up one leve, did the get info again and returned ownership to root.

Then I rebooted, and the machine booted into Finder, before loading PF.

I'm tired of the "sez I"s, so I'll cut to the chase. I still couldn't enable root until I re-launched Finder and exited PF, at which time I was easily able to enable root.

[bill]

Another glitch I noticed: my Path Finder Dock icon became worthless. I had to remove & replace it to get it to do anything.

On the whole though, replacing Finder with Path Finder in its home folder is elegant, IMO.

[Anonymous]

The idea with this is that you don't have to have your PF icon in the dock, the Finder icon is used instead.

And about renaming or moving PF after you are using it as a replacement, you have to make sure PF has been quit, then you have to rename it via applescript or terminal. I tried doing what you described above and it worked fine for me... no errors.

[Anonymous]

Well... here is my way to go... (with this i'm thinking of deleting finder hehehe)
Cmd-click on Path Finder, select "Show Package Contents".
Go to Contents, open PkgInfo.
Change "APPLPFdR" to "FNDRMACS" (ignore quotes; it's the only thing in the file).

open your path finder and go to dir "/System/Library/CoreServices/" then backup your "Finder.app" (stuffit this file and save it anywhere), now go to your path finder dir and copy "Path Finder.app" and paste it on "/System/Library/CoreServices/" dir. now just delete this "Finder.app" (remember you got a bkp ) and rename "Path Finder.app" to "Finder.app". Restart your OS and you're ready to go!

this is working like a charm here, and i don't fink all ever need finder again... i'll just wait some more time to DELETE the "old finder" (yeah!)

[Abhi Beckert]

Here's an oddity: The second line of a finder script (in this case the above-mentioned Replace Text in Item Names script) should be "tell application "applicationName" etc etc" as in:

tell application "Finder" etc etc

However, my copy of this script says:

tell application "Path Finder" etc etc

The odd thing is, I actually *did* go into the script and make that change, but that was several months ago, it was on 10.2.8, and since then I've:
Erased the HD and installed Panther 3 - 4 times
Replaced the HD
Did a zero-all-data HD format on the new HD
Installed Panther again

At no time did I back up my altered scripts, nor did I reload them to the HD afterward

Unless I'm missing something, any one of these steps should have made it impossible for my altered scripts to be on my HD. I guess the question is, since I've got the system more or less thinking Path Finder is Finder, did Finder, Path Finder, Script Editor or some other part of the system make this change for me? Enquiring minds are confused.

When you save a *compiled* script with tell application "Finder" in it, it doesn't actually save that, rather it saves something along the lines of tell application "FNDRMACS". And then when you open the script again, script editor says "what's the name of the app FNDRMACS?" and puts the name of that app in the source code.

So... if a you replace finder with path finder the way this thread says to, any script with tell app "Finder" will automatically be converted to tell app "Path Finder" on your system. If you undo the hack, they'll all magically change back to tell app "Finder"!!

It's a legacy of some really cool stuff MacOS Classic had that's pretty much gone in OS X. Unix is great overall, but there were some things we lost moving to OS X. :(

[lucite]

Anyone know if these little hacks work under Tiger?

[amplidood]

I just did the whole shebang on 10.4.2 and it's wonderful so far. You have to do it from a different startup disk, Tiger won't let you do anything with the Finder on the actual Startup. I love it!!! Now I have Path Finder and WorkStrip as my interface. Finder, Dock, Dashboard, and Spotlight are all dead!!!! Whooppeeee!!!

[hardcat]

Hello,

This is my first post so Hi to everyone. I am trying out PF and really like it. I have seen some references to PF replacing the Finder. Is this really possible and if so is it officialy supported by Cocatech and finaly how is it implemented.

Using OS 10.4.2 on an iBook G4

Kind Regards,

hardcat

[hardcat]

Hi,

I found the toggle in preferences to quit Finder when PF starts up. What I haven't found is how to turn finder back on other than to log out/in. Is this the only way to re-start finder.

I doubt I am not alone in finding the change from Finder to PF a little disorientating at first. The HD icon has gone which is to be expected...right?

I could do with some help from those already using PF to replace the Finder. Do I now do everything through PF window, do I have to have this open all the time. A problem that I have encountered already is that PF takes a lot of space up in the Menu Bar of my iBook (14"). This masks some of my Menu Bar icons. I'm not sure because of this if I will beable to run PF in preference to the Finder.

If I run PF within the Finder will I be loosing any significant functions of PF that might not seem immediately obvious.

Regards,

hardcat

[neilio]

My previous post was premature. I found the toggle in preferences to quit Finder when PF starts up. What I haven't found is how to turn finder back on other than to log out/in. Is this the only way to re-start finder.
Just click on the Finder icon in the dock to restart the Finder.

I doubt I am not alone in finding the change from Finder to PF a little disorientating at first. The HD icon has gone which is to be expected...right?
If you quit the Finder, you'll have to turn on Path FInder's desktop (see under the "Path Finder" menu).

I could do with some help from those already using PF to replace the Finder. <snip> A problem that I have encountered already is that PF takes a lot of space up in the Menu Bar of my iBook (14"). This masks some of my Menu Bar icons.
Note that we offer the ability to quit the Finder because many people like running only Path Finder, but we do not support fully "replacing" the Finder. Path Finder was made to run at the same time as the Finder (i.e. with the Finder in the background) and this is the recommended configuration. There just are too many applications that make specific calls to the Finder (mostly to reveal files).

If I run PF within the Finder will I be loosing any significant functions of PF that might not seem immediately obvious.
As I mentioned above, Path Finder isn't designed to be a 100% replacement for the Finder. That said, many people run PF all the time and do everything in PF that they used to do in the Finder with no problems.

Path Finder doesn't match feature-for-feature with the Finder, but what it lacks it more than makes up for with all of the stuff you can't do in the Finder... so it comes down to whether or not you feel PF fits in with how you want to use your computer.

[hardcat]

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I understand more now and will use it with more confidence. I judge the software I purchase amongst other things on the response to support from developers. I will buy PF very soon.....As soon as the banks open!

Thanks again,

hardcat

[Jesse Gillespie]

Here's how I finally got Path Finder to "replace" the finder:

1. Set path finder to open on login.

2. Use the shareware application dockless to remove the finder from the apple dock.

3. Replace the PathFinder.icns file in the contents/resources directory of the pathfinder app with Finder.icns from /system/library/coreservices/finder/contents/resources/

I leave the finder running in the background so I don't break any applescripts or tiger features like spotlight, but 99% of the time I just forget that it's there. Bliss!

[jasongetsdown]

I'm a PF n00b here so bear with me if this is a stupid question, it was not clear to me.

So I've followed the instructions. When I open a folder from the desktop it opens PF...when I'm using the PF desktop. The "true" desktop still opens finder windows. Is this the behavior I should be expecting? Is there no way to use the "true" desktop with PF?

[florean]

I think just replacing Finder.app in /System/Library/CoreServices is easier. Then you don't have to worry about items 1 and 2 and item 3 seems to be hardcoded in.

[florean]

All I did was:
- Move Finder.app to my home directory
- Copy Path Finder.app to the CoreServices directory as Finder.app (use -R or I used rsync)
- Reboot just to make sure (I tried just killing the Finder and relaunching it, but I still had some problems with Safari).

Three easy steps. So far, works great. One of the big advantages for me (besides not having to worry about accidentally clicking on the Finder icon in the Dock) is that now Expose works properly with the Path Finder desktop.

[iamdw]

Not sure if this is an update or you mistyped but i checked out VT and it's listed as freeware...

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/18195&vid=178470&mode=info

[Agent Macintosh]

I keep Finder running, but I hide the icon in the dock and the Finder desktop. It works great!

[pgrilo]

Hum.. How do you hide the Finder's icon in the dock?

[bspachman]

Hum.. How do you hide the Finder's icon in the dock?

I'm using a little application called 'TransparentDock'.

Available at all your fine software tracking outlets...

brad

[pgrilo]

Thank you.
It didn't work "per si" with me, but in conjunction with "Dockless" app it did!

[wazdog]

In order to actually be able to remove the Finder icon from the dock, I needed TransparentDock. This app will allow you to move around the Finder icon, or drag it off the dock completely. (There's also a ton of other cool things you can do with the dock!)

TransparentDock (http://www.freerangemac.com/TransparentDock2.html)

Dockless will allow the Finder to run in the background. (This has the side effect of not being able to use the Finder's toolbar, but the key combinations still work.) As mentioned above, if the Finder stays running in the background, everything Mac OS X needs it for will still work.

Dockless (http://homepage.mac.com/fahrenba/dockless/dockless.html)

Using both of these apps together will result in an almost Finder-less system, one without any of the negative side effects of actually removing the Finder...

[grotsasha]

And if you want to be really cruel, here are tips that definitevely kill all around:


Try this in Terminal:defaults write com.apple.finder CreateDesktop No
It kills the Finder desktop completely. Make sure you've checked "Show Path Finder Desktop" under the Path Finder menu.

And here (http://www.cocoatech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1078) are some to kill Dock and Dashboard.

(Well, if you get problems after that Cocoatech declines all responsibility :roll: )

Especially you should consider putting everything back on its right place before a major system upgrade...

[blue]

I've been using PF as a replacement for the Finder for nearly two years w/o problem but am confused by some of the posts I read under this topic.

To begin with, I have zero AppleScript problems except for one I hope to introduce in a later topic. Zero iTune problems, zero Dock problems, zero Desktop problems, zero Spotlight problems. Zero problems period. The only problem I ever run into is when I sit down at someone elses Mac and find myself a bit confused/slow with navigating that person's system and uselessly looking for those conveniences I've grown accustomed to and which are absent in Apple's Finder.

Once i rename PF to Finder in the CoreServices folder and remove the old Finder.app (which I have compressed so there's no hope of it ever running) I find that, after restarting, the Finder icon, including the Finder graphic, on the Dock links to the renamed Path Finder app and that Finder-specific actions work across the board. For example, using the Force Quit panel under the Apple menu gives me the option to "relaunch" Path Finder not quit it. And yes, it's listed there as Path Finder, not Finder.

In regards AppleScript, I have the opposite problem of bill. If I try to replace the word Finder with Path Finder in a script I find that on compiling the script all my changes to PF revert back to the word Finder. In any case, the script still runs.

Anyway, I'm writing this for the inqusitive but unsure user of PF who is comtemplating replacing the Finder w/the PF: do it! Just follow Guest's post of Wed Apr 07, 2004 and it works like a charm.

One caveat: Make sure you uncheck the General Preference "Quit the Finder Automatically..." when running PF as the Finder in CoreServices because you introduce an almost impossible to correct situation of PF cum Finder killing itself on start-up!

[oss]

done it like you said (delete finder..put path finder in core services.. and so on) but: now my trah can ( in the dock) is filled with "finder.app" and i cannot delete it (no permission..) how can i empty it? and can i use this trash can? or do i have to use the path finder desktop trash??

thank you!

[blue]

done it like you said (delete finder..put path finder in core services.. and so on) but: now my trah can ( in the dock) is filled with "finder.app" and i cannot delete it (no permission..) how can i empty it? and can i use this trash can? or do i have to use the path finder desktop trash??

Control click on the Trash's desktop icon and select the option Secure Empty Trash For.

On occasion this might not work, in which case, open the Trash folder, select the Finder.app file then choose Commands/Secure Delete in Path FInder's menubar, select Normal Delete and check the option "Execute delete with root privileges." You'll be asked for your name and password before the file is then dumped.

[grotsasha]

Don't delete your Finder.app. Archive it instead. One never knows what can happen... A backup is better.

[oss]

thanks! it worked..
@grotsasha: i've made a backup. the app in the trash was a 'finder copy.app' because i had some trouble with the privileges in the 'core services' folder..

one more question..: when i delete some files.. they appear in both, the dock trash can and the pathfinder desktop trash can.. but i can only empty the trash using the pathfinder trash can.. when i try to empty the dock trah can, nohing happens.. can i fix this?

[burgessa23]

I hide the finder with dockless and transparent dock , but it keeps restarting
if i choose quit finder from the PF menu it just restarts again...

any ideas?

[grotsasha]

Maybe some sort of an application that calls it via AppleScript restarts it.

[burgessa23]

actually, if i undo the defaults.write line that stops the finder desktop from getting created, it stops the re-launch... weird.

[ikemstar]

'Scuse me for my ignorance. I am trying to replace Finder at the CoreServices level. Having:
1. Copied & .zipped my Finder
2. Copied PathFinder to CoreServices
I am attempting to delete the Finder from CoreServices - but PathFinder tells me that I "do not have permission to trash this item".
I have altered permissions to read/write the item (do what I like with it), but I still get that message.

Hmm.

Do I have to shine some Terminal goodness to make the Finder go away, and could somebody tell a lazy-bones like myself what to type ;-)

Thanks.

[bill]

'Scuse me for my ignorance. I am trying to replace Finder at the CoreServices level. Having:
1. Copied & .zipped my Finder
2. Copied PathFinder to CoreServices
I am attempting to delete the Finder from CoreServices - but PathFinder tells me that I "do not have permission to trash this item".
I have altered permissions to read/write the item (do what I like with it), but I still get that message.

Hmm.

Do I have to shine some Terminal goodness to make the Finder go away, and could somebody tell a lazy-bones like myself what to type ;-)

Thanks.
In Terminal, navigate to the CoreServices folder, then try this:
sudo rm Finder.app
It'll ask for your password. Since the Finder is a package, i.e. a type of folder, you might have to use
sudo rm -R Finder.app
Caveat: this is all off the top of my head; I have really throttled back on my Terminal use the last few months, so I may have it wrong. A quick look at man rm in Terminal would be a good idea beforehand.

Further edit: I do not recommend this. You're better off keeping the Finder on hand. If nothing else, you'll need it for system updates involving the Finder. I'm not sure from your post if you've renamed Path Finder to Finder (a common part of the 'total Finder replacement hack'), but if you have, a Finder update would cause problems.

I'd recommend what I did, back when I was fooling with it: rename the Finder to Finder.backup.app or Finder.original.app or whatever, and leave it in CoreServices, then move Path Finder into CoreServices (optionally renaming it to Finder). This way, if you need it, it's there with minimal firbligs.

[ikemstar]

That sounds grand! Again, Terminal Demigod ;-), I am all greyed out with the read/write permissions thing preventing me from renaming the Finder *in* CoreServices.
Just how do I rename the Finder to Finder.backup.app when the system won't let me? I know, I know; I really need to brush up on my Lingua Unix.

[flip]

Just how do I rename the Finder to Finder.backup.app when the system won't let me?

Terminal again. Navigate to CoreServices and run:

sudo mv Finder.app Finder.backup.app.

[ikemstar]

Thank you! It works like a charm - in part; I can't rename my CoreServices' PathFinder ("Path Finder copy.app") the same way.
I type into the Terminal:

sudo mv Path Finder copy.app Finder.app

(and what I get is)

My-Computer:/System/Library/CoreServices My$ sudo mv Path Finder copy.app Finder.app
usage: mv [-f | -i | -n] [-v] source target
mv [-f | -i | -n] [-v] source ... directory

...with Path Finder copy.app determined to keep a-hold of it's name, and unchanged. What have I done wrong? How do I alter this to a correct syntax?
Thanks.

[flip]

The problem comes from the space in PF's name. Try this:

sudo mv "Path Finder copy.app" Finder.app

[ikemstar]

That, flip, is *the bomb*. No matter how many times we discuss on how to replace Finder with Path Finder, these little tips are useful. Particularly, the CoreServices approach was *not* clear to everybody (as you can see from pervious posts) without digging into Terminal to bypass permissions.

I'll let you know how I go once I reboot, lol ;-)

[flip]

You know, if you asked me, I'd advise against replacing the Finder at all. :)

[ikemstar]

Okay. What are the worst things that can happen to me now in this set-up? Before I reboot my Mac. Is it just system update weirdness? I can switch back if this is a Bad Thing To Do™.

[flip]

Okay. What are the worst things that can happen to me now in this set-up? Before I reboot my Mac. Is it just system update weirdness? I can switch back if this is a Bad Thing To Do™.
Of course you can switch back.

The other bad things that can happen are related with other applications that talk to the Finder. Things like revealing an application by cmd-clicking on its Dock icon, or revealing the file of a song from iTunes, etc, may no longer work. Also, if PF doesn't allow you to do some things because of a bug or a limitation (dunno, like emptying the trash when it contains things you don't own, as I've seen a couple of times), then you no longer have the Finder as another method to try.

Frankly I've never disabled the Finder (because I use lots of AppleScripts that still rely on it), but I have no problem at all running both the Finder and PF. The resources used by the Finder when it's idle are negligible, and there are different methods to hide or stop using its desktop, so it doesn't get in your way. Personally I'm perfectly happy like that.

[grotsasha]

What issues am I likely to have if I replace Finder? (http://www.cocoatech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225)

[amplidood]

I don't have any issues while not running the finder. In fact, I have LESS issues when not running the Finder.

I'm not a coder of any sort, I'm a musician/producer. The Finder is so incredibly retarded and built like a Fisher-Price toy that I feel very patronized after a while. My computer (old dual 1ghz MDD) runs like a smooth purring kitten when the Finder is gone. I don't get the hiccups. I can run flash animations/games, movies, whatever in the background and they don't stutter. Everything opens twice as fast.

I'm beginning to believe the Finder is the source of many ailments on the Mac. I don't bother trying to actually hack it out of the system, but I don't need to with this wonderful thing. As soon as Path Finder is able to undo file moves, maybe I *will* hack the Finder out once and for all.

[grotsasha]

Thanks for compliments :)

Not running Finder and replacing Finder with PF are totally different things, replacing has proven to be really able to break things, so proceed at you own risk ...

[tknospdr]

Here is a very detailed article on how to replace the Finder with Path Finder.

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20041129160952245

I'm not sure that everything there is necessary though as some of the rigamarole that he discusses seems to be taken care of by tips in this thread with less hassle.

I want to echo the request to figure out how to make Path Finder intercept calls made to the Dock's Trash icon. That's the only thing that keeps my sense of completeness happy.

One other thing, a feature request (unless it's there and I just can't find it). I'd like to see a 'Snap to Grid' setting for the PF desktop.

Edit - I meant to say that's the only thing that is keeping my sense of completeness from being happy.

[flip]

Snap to Grid: click on the Desktop, then select the menu item View>Show View Options.

[tknospdr]

Snap to Grid: click on the Desktop, then select the menu item View>Show View Options.
Thank you!

[wysiwyg]

Er.. Just a naive question: did anyone tried to rename the Finder to something else and the Path Finder to "Finder", then replace it?

[sabotage79]

I used 'Anonymous' method and it works great. One funny thing I noticed is if you had checked "Quit The Finder Automatically at Launch', then you will notice Path Finders quits itself at startup when using the Finder icon to start Path Finder!

[gryphonent]

I tend to ask Pathfinder to kill the Finder upon launch. However, occasionally the Finder is asked to start when a file has been downloaded or expanded... and I have to kill it yet again manually.

While I know there are folks out there who use both Pathfinder and Finder, I cannot see the advantage of this and would very much like to be Pathfinder my replacement for Finder... but for this to come true you need to make sure - once and for all - that the Finder stays indeed put until I quit Pathfinder or restart the Finder manually myself. All system requests should be pipelined and forwarded to Pathfinder! This is the single most annoying issue I have with Pathfinder. And though I’ve reported it before, version 4.7 does not offer any improvements in this respect.

[sqook]

The key is to replace finder with PF, not to run them side-by-side. This way, when you log in, PF is automatically launched by OSX, which doesn't know (or care) that it's not the real Finder. It also has the added bonus of using the finder icon in your dock. :)

You do this by doing the following:

0. Make sure that you are not trying to automatically launch PF on bootup via system preferences or anything. Also disable the "Quit Finder on Path Finder start" option in PF.
1. Navigate to /System/Library/CoreServices, and move Finder.app out of the way. DO NOT delete it, as you'll need it during software updates.
2. Move Path Finder.app to this directory and rename it to Finder.app
3. Navigate inside of the PF bundle, and edit the PkgInfo file inside of the "Contents" folder. Change it to "FNDRMACS" (no quotes, obviously).
4. Run check disk permissions and reboot (logout isn't good enough).

Note that this is not officially supported by cocoatech and is risky. Software update, in particular, will freak out at this mod, and you need to be super careful to run the exact reverse of these instructions before updating to newer versions of OSX.

[gryphonent]

Whoa... thanks for this. While I understand what you’re doing there I feel hesitant to follow your advice. Already Pathfinder is crashing a lot and I’m always told by Cocoatech that it has to do with my system... despite the fact that it’s the only app I have problems with. If this app is advertised as a “finder replacement” it should fully function as such and truly replace the Finder. Otherwise I suggest to use the term “finder complement” or “finder buddy.” It’s possibly not easy to find a workaround for this issue, but having two app running side by side, doing pretty much the same... what’s the point? Also, every time the system has to launch the Finder because some file has been downloaded it takes time and patience before I can get back to work. Cannot believe I’m the only one annoyed by this fact.

[neilio]

Sadly, until Apple provides us with: 1. a way to redirect all calls meant for the Finder to Path Finder and 2. a way to use "file" and "folder" references in our Applescript dictionary that override the Finder's dictionary we will probably never fully support replacing the Finder. There are just too many system calls that are hard-wired to only work with the Finder that would make the hacking required to make replacement work almost impossible.

[gryphonent]

Thanks for the answer. Much appreciated. I feared as much. It is obvious why Apple will NEVER provide a solution and remove the roadblocks described in your email. So, it seems the only hope is to collaborate with other developers and have them implement a preference to forward system requests to Pathfinder. I've seen more and more apps offering this feature. Maybe developers are not even aware that they can add this feature to their app? Some lobbying might help here.

[bwoodruff]

Has anyone else noticed a significantly slower startup when using this method? :
defaults write com.apple.loginwindow Finder /Applications/Path\ Finder.app

When I do that, it adds like 8 seconds to the login time.
Removing that entry (setting it back to the Apple Finder) fixes the slowness.
Once PF launches and the desktop icons show up it's fine, but it's painful until that happens.

[fabricej]

I've tried to remove the finder's icon from dock with transparent dock and dockless, but it stands still ... due to the new leopard dock???

Is there a hack for this problem?

Thank you. :)

[Darth Pooh]

Sadly, until Apple provides us with: 1. a way to redirect all calls meant for the Finder to Path Finder and 2. a way to use "file" and "folder" references in our Applescript dictionary that override the Finder's dictionary we will probably never fully support replacing the Finder. There are just too many system calls that are hard-wired to only work with the Finder that would make the hacking required to make replacement work almost impossible.

I really fail to understand why you consider things "hard wired" to the Finder.The finder is just another application, that can be replaced at any time with another application called Finder.

1. To replace the Finder you don't need to redirect any calls, you just have to assume the Finders Identity and know what to do with the calls.

2. if you made your dictionary compatible with the Finder's dictionary then Applescript wouldn't know the difference, and everything should work.

Maybe this would take some reverse engineering, but it should be possible.

[grotsasha]

This is against guidelines and Apple Script dictionary if duplicated of Finder just won't compile. We can't intercept calls that are routing to another application. We don't have rights to do so :) What if you did want to have it going to Finder? We would never know. We can't just overwrite it like that. It's up to third-party developers of other apps to decide when they want to add Path Finder support or not (which numerous developers already did).

[Darth Pooh]

This is against guidelines and Apple Script dictionary if duplicated of Finder just won't compile. We can't intercept calls that are routing to another application. We don't have rights to do so :) What if you did want to have it going to Finder? We would never know. We can't just overwrite it like that. It's up to third-party developers of other apps to decide when they want to add Path Finder support or not (which numerous developers already did).

You re looking at this from the wrong paradigm. what you stated is only an issue if Pathfinder is running as a Separate Application from the Finder. the context we are talking about in this thread is Pathfinder completely replacing the Apple's Finder, and BEING the Finder ( i.e. renaiming Path finder.app to Finder.app, cganging the PkInfo to FNDRMACS and movin it to /System/Library/CoreServices) We would never want calls to go to Apple's Finder, because it no longer exists as the Finder on our system. All calls will still go to Finder.app (which is Path Finder), the only question is will Path Finder know what to do with them.

[gryphonent]

Darth Pooh... thank you! Exactly my point. I don’t need Finder for anything if Pathfinder is running. And as Finder is just an app as well I simply don’t understand why all calls cannot be rerouted to Pathfinder if, and only IF, that is the user’s preference. It always takes a while when some app requires the Finder and the Finder needs to be started for a minor task that Pathfinder could do as well.

[monkeybrainsushi]

I use PF as a complete Finder replacement and ran into only a single issue so far with 3rd party (non Apple-made ) AppleScripts that were unable to complete. Apart from that everything runs smoothly and I am much more productive thanks to PF matching the way my brain functions much better than the actual Finder. I use it in conjunction with DragThing which allows me to have a few more drawers/windows available to navigate. That's it ... my 2 cents' worth opinion... :-)

[h00ligan]

hmm.. i can't seem to get stacks to work as far as opening PF windows....